Open Discussion on SC

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by 4xdblack, Feb 6, 2017.

  1. wastaz

    wastaz Stuffed tiger
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    What!? Preposterous!
    Seriously though, why is this so hard?
    I remember back when we started up A4 back in forever ago, we discussed politics occasionally but it never ever got even close to as out of hand as the current events is. We hardly moderated that stuff back then, people were just...not as much asshats.

    Maybe it's the current political climate where it is almost encouraged to give zero regard to things as independent proven research or "facts" or for that matter even common decency. But that doesnt mean that we cant be decent human beings to each other on the forum, does it?

    And if people cant handle that in CE (the current evidence strongly points to people not being able to handle this) then nuke it from orbit. When it all comes down to it, this isnt a politics forum. It's an anime (and other geeky things) forum. If people cant handle free discussion about that type of topics then just ban it completely for now. If you want to discuss politics and be an ass to other people then go somewhere else.

    Let's just quickly look at the rules we all agreed on:
    You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws.

    Seems pretty clear to me that what is currently going on in CE is not really lining up with these rules.
     
  2. 4xdblack

    4xdblack Accomplished Booty-Cop
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    It's not hard... idk why people in this thread keep posting as if someone in here disagreed. No one here disagrees with the fact that everyone in CE (myself included) needs to behave in a non-dickish form. At this point I kinda feel like it's beating a dead horse.

    But the question of this thread is, can the current staff be objective and impartial enough to enforce those rules/create new ones? Especially when they are all directly involved in those topics.

    Not to be insulting to the staff, but it's literally impossible to be objective about something when you are also directly involved.
     
  3. StrawHats

    StrawHats Stuck in a chair
    Staff Member Moderator Founder

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    The staff is not only comprised of those who are directly involved in CE discussions. Anyone with moderating privileges have been asked to strictly moderate CE objectively.
    Yes, you've said before:
    And I'm here to let you know that we--anyone who have mod authority--have been asked to do what you want to happen:
    So if that was
    then have you gotten enough responses from users in this thread to answer your question? That way, all of us can come to an agreement and sort it out.

    Staff wants what's best for CE and the forum as a whole, just as much as every member of our community does. This is not another CE thread so let's keep arguments aside and focus, as a whole, on a possible solution. Thank you.
     
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  4. Novaire

    Novaire Serial Editor
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    This might be the very reason that you believe there's some grand conspiracy with regard to the Staff's differing opinions.

    On multiple occasions, you've stated that you think Sakuga is going in that direction, not that it has, which begs the question: Why assume that it's going in that direction at all? It's a leap in logic. Could it go that way? Possibly. Has it? No.

    The fact is, the removed posts have contained a breach of the forum rules, which, other than the recently established strawmanning one, have been in place since launch. The new rule became necessary as current events posts were continually being worked over to start arguments over things that weren't implicitly stated in the first place.

    Most recently in the vetting thread, Tony's post was removed because he insulted another user, and Moe's was removed because he went off-topic. Those are not matters which require an opinion, it's enforcing policies that folks are supposed to have already been aware of. Our rules are among the most common forum regulations out there. The fact that they rarely issue serious bans is a testament to the chances everyone is afforded. It's that simple.

    We're fighting something that doesn't yet exist, and after the tangent that this thread has gone on, I'd think you'd also understand the merits of framing the discussion so it doesn't fly off the handle, as it happens in seemingly every thread related to the sub-forum. If we had a serious bias problem, we wouldn't have a problem with Current Events, if you catch my drift.

     
    #44 Novaire, Feb 8, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
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  5. Red_Dragon

    Red_Dragon Famous Member
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    This might not be the sexy opinion but I think we should keep CE the way it is and just ban political threads. There are so many things going on in the world right now that don't always have to revolve around politics. I'd be 100% OK if we just stopped the politics, most forums I've been a member of in the past don't allow any threads related to religion or politics, maybe we should consider going that route.
     
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  6. 4xdblack

    4xdblack Accomplished Booty-Cop
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    Just because it hasn't reached it's destination yet doesn't mean we should ignore the fact that we're being pushed towards that direction.

    "Oh we haven't fallen off the cliff yet, so it doesn't matter that we're rolling towards it."

    I have no idea about the deleted posts.. I don't even know what posts were deleted. If they broke rules that's perfectly fine. They should have been deleted.

    There is a large difference between framing a thread and framing it under threat of penalty.

    That's actually a really good suggestion. Thank you for your thoughts.
     
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  7. Novaire

    Novaire Serial Editor
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    A closer equivalent would be "Oh, we haven't spilled the milk, so we don't need to move the glass."

    It's hardly as dramatic an issue as you're making it out to be.

    Clearly asking folks to obey by the forum rules is too much to ask.

    The reality is, if someone is disrupting a thread's discussion point, the staff are already within their rights to remove their post to keep it on track because it's an established regulation. They don't hve to frame the discussion, because it's been outlined previously. People continually disregard that though, so it's been written yet again, with further clarity. It's simply enforcing the rules, and everything you say is under the threat of penalty if you break them. People being punished as rarely as they are is a good benchmark for the leniency of the staff toward that kind of behavior.

    Rules and regulations are important for keeping people in check, and if the cattle need to be herded, they shall be. We all signed on the dotted line, so let's stay on topic, and be courteous to one another.
     
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  8. TonyTony

    TonyTony Active Member

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    I am a huge advocate of banning CE all together but banning political and religion threads is a good alternative.
     
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  9. Mr. Mister

    Mr. Mister Is Breaking Down

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    I agree. Politics is extremely volatile right now. Sure, it's important, but it gets people more riled up than it ever did in the past. Besides, they are plenty of others stories that will cause people to get pissed off. So why not give those a better chance?
     
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  10. yoda313

    yoda313 JEDI MASTER
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    i agree with this too. i never get involved in ce politics because i dont want to lose a friend over arguing over something that no one individual can solve.
     
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  11. KT Samurai

    KT Samurai The Peacemaker
    Staff Member Administrator "Owner"

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    Removing CE entirely has been on the table for awhile now, and even as I work to come up with ways to keep it I have to wonder why we should even bother.

    At the end of the day I think we need to ask ourselves: what purpose does the section serve? What do we want from it?

    No one's mind is getting changed in there, so we're not really using it to consider new points of view, and a shockingly large number of users see no problem with leaping immediately to ad hominem attacks and other aggressive behavior at the earliest opportunity. We have people who are a delight in nearly every other sub-forum but turn into monsters when they post in a political thread. Lines have already been drawn in the sand, friendships have been strained or even broken, and for what? Are we fighting to keep this section just so that we can get at each other's throats and then awkwardly talk about our hobbies later after all the awful things we say to one another? I don't know about you guys but it's been pretty awful for me.

    What's the point of CE? Why are we trying to keep it?
     
  12. Struggler

    Struggler Sapient Meat
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    Or leave it as is so people can have discussions and arguments, but actually hold people accountable for their behavior for a change.

    Staff is far from capable of taking a position anywhere remotely near objective when it comes to most of these CE threads, so find a new person who can remain closer to the middle.

    Do something other than personally involving yourselves in these shit show threads and then bitching about the mess you had a strong hand in helping create as if it's entirely someone else's fault.

    Getting rid of CE entirely isn't a solution; it's lazy. It's a sign of an inability to manage this insignificant community, as well as even yourselves when posting in the section.
     
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  13. 4xdblack

    4xdblack Accomplished Booty-Cop
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    That's why I'm really starting to lean towards @Red_Dragon 's suggestion... 99% of all heated debates in the CE section have spawned from political/religious topics. However there have been plenty of CE threads which were perfectly fine and created a good atmosphere for conversation. Maybe the problem isn't CE, but rather the politics being posted there.

    With that said.. I'm still with the majority here and believe that banning politics and/or removing CE entirely should be a last-resort if we cannot find a better solution.

    Despite the many failures I've had during this thread... I think this is a great opportunity for the whole community to work together and solve this problem once and for-all. I live by an ideology that every problem has a perfect solution, but the trick is finding it. And together I believe that we could find that solution.
     
  14. Kuze

    Kuze Heaven's not enough
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    As others have mentioned doing away with the CE section does seem like a harsh toke since there are so many better topics to discuss than partisan stuff. However a temporary ban on Mu........ahem I mean a temporary/indefinite hold on political/partisan threads seems like a great suggestion. Nice one mate. @Red_Dragon
     
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  15. Novaire

    Novaire Serial Editor
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    About those fire extinguishers...
     
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  16. Kuze

    Kuze Heaven's not enough
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    Yes, they'll be coming from page 4 onwards.
     
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  17. Interest1ng

    Interest1ng SC's AmbASSador.... MAWP!!!

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    I'll bring the fan to breathe life into the flames of despair.......

    Another thing that I would like to add is if your upset about the Mod/Admin team doing their job on their forum that they created for you.... There is a door... and I am sure you know where to find it. I just hope that when you do find it you know how to use it properly.

    I don't think it is a revolving door.
     
  18. Kuze

    Kuze Heaven's not enough
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    We'll send the kids out first and then the women. I'll be back, with the whole fire department.
     
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  19. Dunn x Dolo

    Dunn x Dolo King of the Chatroom
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    Bruh. Fix your damn sig. Center the damn thing so it stops being annoying to look at. God damn Kuz Kuz.

    Back to topic,

    I agree that we should not completely remove the CE. I think we should just have it so that the mods let it be and just start laying the law down on these candy ass posters. Start throwing infractions and temp bans on members who don't follow the rules.

    BUT......I can already forsee, that when we will start seeing more whining threads like this one because butthurt peoples will feel like they are being censored when their post are deleted for not following the rules.

    Remember. Dunny called it first.
     
  20. Shannon Apple

    Shannon Apple Sour Apple
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    Well, I am with the majority against the removal of CE for one reason. Why allow a small number of users who don't know how to back down on an argument, create strawmen or use wiki info as the only source of knowledge of a debate from ruining everyone else's experience? I'm in favour of removing individuals.

    Better still, allowing access when a user reaches x number of posts. If user can't play nice in there, revoke access either permanently or temporarily. This way, new users and offline users cant read CE content. It prevents multi-accounts and trolling too. CE is an "extra" so it's not essential for new people to see it.
     
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